Saints

[barrett]

The Saints have been busted for putting up bounties as high as $50,000 to hurt opposing players over the last 3 years. Greg Williams (recently hired by Jeff Fisher), ran the whole system and 22-27 players were involved.

I always thought their defense was dirty (Roman harper in particular). Tons of after the whistle stuff. It will be interesting what kind of penalties come down.

[HPF Bob]

Go back to that NFC Championship game against the Vikings and there was some absolutely brutal hits put on Favre. True, the old man needed to be put out of his misery but if you tell me the Saints D was playing that game with bounties in mind, I would believe it.

[popanot]

It would be asinine to think this doesn't happen elsewhere, but the Saints are the ones who got busted and should be punished severely and made an example of. Strip the franchise of draft picks and give them a hefty fine. Suspend any player who is found to be participating in the funding of the pool, and definitely if they are proven to have hurt someone and received a payout.

As for anyone in authority who was participating in, condoning and/or managing the "program" (such as Williams, Loomis - and possibly Peyton) they should be banned from the league for life. A simple suspension will not send the right message, IMO. I know that sounds harsh, but I find it ridiculous that someone in authority in today's NFL would be so stupid to partake in something like that and they have no place in this league.

I understand the NFL is a violent game and players go out with the intention of hurting the opposition all the time, but this is different. It’s an organization rewarding their players for this sort of activity. What if someone knocked out Schaub or Foster with a cheap-shot only to find out a player on the other team got a bonus check for it? Shameful, really. Darn near makes me hope someone plants Brees next year just to see the Saints suffer with their 2nd or 3rd string QB.

[HPF Bob]

What if someone knocked out Schaub or Foster with a cheap-shot only to find out a player on the other team got a bonus check for it? Shameful, really.

You mean like Jared Allen (who went after Schaub's knees) or Drayton Florence (who gave Schaub a blindside KO after an interception)? Don't know if those were bounties but they were definitely cheap shots and what angered me most is that we didn't fight back. If someone cheap-shots your QB, you END THEIR CAREERS. You don't ask the refs to do it. You don't ask the league to fine them. You take care of your own business and you put them in the hospital. THAT'S how you stop other teams from cheap-shotting your guys.

I still remember Kyle Turley going postal on some Jets player who tried to hurt Aaron Brooks. And while he got fined and ejected, I guarantee you that sent a message to every other team in the league and there were probably 31 other starting QBs around the league that would have wanted Kyle Turley on their OL after seeing that.

[popanot]

You mean like Jared Allen (who went after Schaub's knees) or Drayton Florence (who gave Schaub a blindside KO after an interception)? Don't know if those were bounties but they were definitely cheap shots and what angered me most is that we didn't fight back. If someone cheap-shots your QB, you END THEIR CAREERS. You don't ask the refs to do it. You don't ask the league to fine them. You take care of your own business and you put them in the hospital. THAT'S how you stop other teams from cheap-shotting your guys.

I still remember Kyle Turley going postal on some Jets player who tried to hurt Aaron Brooks. And while he got fined and ejected, I guarantee you that sent a message to every other team in the league and there were probably 31 other starting QBs around the league that would have wanted Kyle Turley on their OL after seeing that.I don't disagree with this at all. And yes, you'll always have ass-hat individuals like Allen and Florence. However, the Saints deal is damn near criminal in its organization and goal. It's disgusting to think a player who makes hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, and is in a small fraternity of players would knowingly accept a measley ~$1K or so to potentially ruin the career of another player.

Now players are coming out and saying Williams did the same thing in Washington. Like I said, the NFL should ban that a-hole for life. People will obviously have differing opinions on this, but mine is the NFL should come down hard wherever it has the power to on this.

[barrett]

It doesn't suprise me at all since Williams is a Fisher guy. I know many in Houston still love Fisher, but his teams are dirty and undisciplined. Fisher teams had 167 personal fouls in his 10 years with the Titans, the next highest in the league in that span was 136.

Other teams may have bounties, but I would hope it is unique that a coach as high up as a coordinator was running it and they have documentation that allowed them to be caught. This was not "the game of football." Football is a profession played by professionals. This is organized, sanctioned, approved, and rewarded dirty play. One of the hits that payed out literally ended Kurt Warner's career (last play he ever played they leveled him on the back side of an INT return).

I hope the punishment is severe. I think this is far worse than spygate. Though probably similar in that the Patriots were the worst cheaters (everyone steals signs, just without video), and the Saints are just the worst of those with a bounty system.

1st round pick sounds about right for the franchise. Player fines for all involved. Lengthy suspension for Williams and the unnamed position coach.

[Keith]

I'm all for docking a team a 1st round pick as a penalty... that sends a message to the top of the organization... but I don't think that would sit well with the players' union.

[barrett]

I'm all for docking a team a 1st round pick as a penalty... that sends a message to the top of the organization... but I don't think that would sit well with the players' union.

I'm not really sure how the Union sees it. On the one hand they lose the first rounder and the 1st round contact. But player injuries have to be a serious priority for the Union. What kind of money do guys like Warner and Favre get paid if they aren't getting cheap shotted by Roman Harper and the like.

If I'm the union, I want to see the organization and the coaches hit hard (to protect players going forward) and the players slapped on the wrist.

[painekiller]

Forget the union, there is talk that this will be looked at as a capital offense. It is outside the rules of the game and as such falls under a criminal act. Williams and players could be looking at criminal charges.

And I am fine with Williams being suspended for life.

[edo783]

I'm all for docking a team a 1st round pick as a penalty... that sends a message to the top of the organization... but I don't think that would sit well with the players' union.

True they may or may not care, but to come down in anyway seen as supporting it would be a MAJOR PR blunder, so I doubt they do.

[NBT]

Well, Greg Williams trained under Fisher, and he is going back to be with Daddy. Expect St. Louis to be the next bully.

[barrett]

Wow....

Saints coach Sean Payton has been suspended for one year, former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams was suspended indefinitely, general manager Mickey Loomis was suspended for eight regular-season games, the team was fined $500,000 and lost two second-round draft picks (one in 2012 and '13) as a result of a bounty program conducted by the team during the 2009-11 seasons.

There was a lot of talk that the Saints have played fast and loose the past 5 years under Payton and disregarded numerous NFL rules. Then they were explicitly told by the NFL before last season to stop the bounty program and they completely blew the league off. Then the NFL ends up dealing with brain/concussion questions all year. Add it all up and the NFL just murdered the Saints, the same team that was sold to America as heroes for the previous 5 years.

[WMH]

Hammered!!!!!

[HPF Bob]

I think it was the Katrina comeback that inspired New Orleans' "Good Guy" reputation, the feel-good story of the vagabond team of a devastated city rising from the rubble to NFL titledom.

The next question is "what do the Saints do with their coaching staff and front office"?

[barrett]

I think it was the Katrina comeback that inspired New Orleans' "Good Guy" reputation, the feel-good story of the vagabond team of a devastated city rising from the rubble to NFL titledom.

The next question is "what do the Saints do with their coaching staff and front office"?

It was definitely the Katrina comeback, but the NFL and all of the networks jumped on board. A city who previously didn't show up for games (and wore paper bags over there head when they did), was presented as a city deeply in love with their team. They were darlings of primetime games and rooted for by everyone.

The 4 page release today also mentions that Payton hated Greg Williams from before he hired him but did it anyways to turn the defense around. Payton then hired a coach whose primary job was to keep an eye on Williams. Then Payton knew about all of the bounties, had emails about it, was told to shut it down, lied about it all, and then got dumped.

[Nconroe]

Sad story when people decide to win at all costs. Then you get caught and you lose much worse than if you played the game right.

They deserve what they got.

Too bad for all the good Saints and Saints fans.

[Joshua]

I suspect if they had come clean when the league first began investigating, it probably would have been handled internally with some slaps on the wrists (fines), as I think the league would have preferred to keep this quiet. I think the Saints sealed their fate by thumbing their nose at the league office, generally, and the Commish, specifically. You can't have a coordinated, deliberate bounty program going for 3 years, lie about it to the Commish's face, then continue doing it. It was inevitable that Goodell's head would explode when this all came out.

[NBT]

And isn't Drew Brees a FA? Do you think he will still resign with the Saints now that Sean Payton won't be there for a year? To say nothing of all the bad publicity.

[WMH]

And isn't Drew Brees a FA? Do you think he will still resign with the Saints now that Sean Payton won't be there for a year? To say nothing of all the bad publicity.

Exclusive Franchise tag. He's not going anywhere.

[Nconroe]

Did he sign franchise tag? Anyways he may hold out till thet pay him equal or more than Peyton. Brees doesn't sounf very happy these days.

[NBT]

Heck, would you be? He was on the other side of the ball. He didn't have anything to do with the bonuses. I definitely would hold out

[Nconroe]

Looks like so far the appeals did not work so initial penalties still in place for coaches and managers.

http://news.yahoo.com/goodell-upholds-penalties-saints-bounty-case-172608277--spt.html

So,big questions are
1. will any players be penalized ( up to 27 rumored)
2. who will replace Sean Peyton as coach this year ( must follow Rooney rule)

[HPF Bob]

Team execs don't have a union for Goodell to kiss ass so the suspensions hold. Good, I say. I get tired of watching someone get suspended and then watch it get reduced on appeal. Such a joke.

[WMH]

Might be getting deeper in the Big Easy....
Who knows if this is true or not, but were there is smoke, there is usually fire....
At any rate, they don't need much more press.

From PFT:
A bad offseason for the Saints keeps getting worse.

John Barr of ESPN reports that the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Eastern District of Louisiana recently was told that Saints general manager Mickey Loomis “had an electronic device in his Superdome suite that had been secretly re-wired to enable him to eavesdrop on visiting coaching staffs for nearly three NFL seasons.”

Saints spokesman Greg Bensel tells PFT that the allegation is “1000 percent false.”

“We asked ESPN to provide us evidence to support their allegations and they did not,” Bensel said.

[Nconroe]

Jonathan wilma got suspended one year without pay pending appeal. Sounds right to me.

[HPF Bob]

I don't have all the facts but the punishment fits the crime if the crime is as described by the league.

[WMH]

Saw an interesting point somewhere today.

The NFL warned the Saints brass. Did they warn the players as well? Did Petting relay the warnings from the league? Etc. I'm sure you see the point. I have a feeling, this one is going to court.

[NBT]

Exclusive Franchise tag. He's not going anywhere.

Errrrr........so was Palmer. He ended up getting what he wanted all along,...to be traded! Not to necessarily say that is what Brees wants. We shall see.

[barrett]

Saw an interesting point somewhere today.

The NFL warned the Saints brass. Did they warn the players as well? Did Petting relay the warnings from the league? Etc. I'm sure you see the point. I have a feeling, this one is going to court.

Warning or not, jonathon vilma twice stood up in a room full of people and said I will pay you $10,000 to hurt this man. If it goes to court it should be for felony charges.

[WMH]

Warning or not, jonathon vilma twice stood up in a room full of people and said I will pay you $10,000 to hurt this man. If it goes to court it should be for felony charges.

Don't disagree at all, but Goddell's "basis" of punishment to the Saints brass was that they had been warned. I just thought it was an interesting point as to whether or not the players associated had recieved similiar warnings. If they had not, I would assume this will be the basis of thier case to reduce suspensions. Don't see them eliminitating, but could see a reduction, especially with Vilma.

Its awfully convienent that Vilma restructured his deal to help his team out with the cap this year. Saw somewhere that he reduced his base to about $1MM, and $4MMish was converted to bonus.

[Nconroe]

seems players ought to get off their denial phase and into cooperation phase to me, if they want to have a chance at penalties reduced.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/20/excerpt-of-nfl-session-with-media-regarding-hargrove-video/

Can't believe Drew Brees deal not worked out yet.

[Nconroe]

4 players reinstated for now

http://www.chron.com/sports/article/Panel-vacates-bounty-suspensions-for-4-NFL-players-3848163.php