How will you judge the defense?

[painekiller]

I am not huge on just Mario getting sacks. We need to have all the guys helping out. I am looking for them to get to 40 sacks, they had 31 last season also 38 would have put them in the top 8 last season, that would be considered elite.

INTs- I would love to see them get to 20 for the season, but that is most likely pushing it. We only had 11 last season tied for last in the league, with 20 being top 4.

FF - We had 18 last season which is respectable, I am looking for 20, which would move us to the top 10.

Lastly can we get the points per game below 20, last year he had 24.0 ppg, Indy lead the league with 16.4. Having a offense that can run the ball should help lower that number for us.

[papabear]

The big thing I want to see is for us to be better against the run and to get consistent pressure on the QB. If those two things happen, all of the stats will fall into place.

[painekiller]

The big thing I want to see is for us to be better against the run and to get consistent pressure on the QB. If those two things happen, all of the stats will fall into place.

You know the two stats that really mean anything for a team and a defense is avg pts allowed and wins, if you only allow x amount of points and you give your offense a chance to utulize their entire playbook, read run and pass, your team has a much better chance to win.

[nero THE zero]

Our schedule is very run-heavy this season. If we can end up in the 10-15 range in run defense, considering the backfields we will be up against, I will be more than happy. I am also looking for a good turnover ratio from our team, though that is not exclusively a defensive statistic.

So, ultimately, I would like to be ranked in the top half in run defense and have a respectable turnover ratio. I think those are our two major keys to finding a spot in the playoffs.

[Bigtinylittle]

I will start to believe in the defense when they start to get CONSISTENT pressure on the QB. Way too many times last year they would get a sack, then on the next play, which everyone in the stadium knew would be a pass, the d-line would get no penetration at all. Even if there was a blitz, there still would usually be no pressure. The general result was a long pass for a first down, and the sack was totally wasted.

[edo783]

I doubt Mario gets 14 again. I think he kind of snuck up on some folks last year and they will pay a great deal of attention to him this year.. I do think he will be in the 11-12 range. I see Amoby getting in the 6-8 range. TJ should be in the 4-6 range. Okam will MAYBE get 1-2. Weaver should be in the 4-6 range and Colvin should be in the 6-8 range. That would give us a range from 32-42 sacks. Right about where we should be. Add in a few from LBs and a DB or two and that would be a VERY good season. Will it happen...... I doubt it as things are seldom that easy to define and something will happen to at least one of those guys to prevent them from being that effective.

[Bigtinylittle]

I doubt Mario gets 14 again. I think he kind of snuck up on some folks last year and they will pay a great deal of attention to him this year.. I do think he will be in the 11-12 range. I see Amoby getting in the 6-8 range. TJ should be in the 4-6 range. Okam will MAYBE get 1-2. Weaver should be in the 4-6 range and Colvin should be in the 6-8 range. That would give us a range from 32-42 sacks. Right about where we should be. Add in a few from LBs and a DB or two and that would be a VERY good season. Will it happen...... I doubt it as things are seldom that easy to define and something will happen to at least one of those guys to prevent them from being that effective.

I hope you are right, but I am not nearly as optimistic. Except for Colvin, who I assume will only be in on third down, we essentially will be using the same personnel as last year. Since Weaver will apparently be out of the game on third down unless you see him moving to tackle, I could see him getting almost no sacks at all.

Concerning Mario, if he is as improved this year over last year as Kubuak is saying, then his production may not go down at all.

Concerning Amobi, Kubiak says he is improved, but what troubles me is that last year his production went way down during the last half of the season. People say "he hit the wall", but frankly, I'm at a loss for what caused it. The thing that bothers me is how do we know he isn't going to hit that same wall all season this year? Very puzzling to me.

[Nconroe]

I am more optimistic right now that our DL will get much more consistent and dominant this year in all phases, sacks, pressures, run defense, take aways, and this will then give all defense a lot better result in points allowed and our wins.

[KJ3]

I doubt Mario gets 14 again. I think he kind of snuck up on some folks last year and they will pay a great deal of attention to him this year.. I do think he will be in the 11-12 range. I see Amoby getting in the 6-8 range. TJ should be in the 4-6 range. Okam will MAYBE get 1-2. Weaver should be in the 4-6 range and Colvin should be in the 6-8 range. That would give us a range from 32-42 sacks. Right about where we should be. Add in a few from LBs and a DB or two and that would be a VERY good season. Will it happen...... I doubt it as things are seldom that easy to define and something will happen to at least one of those guys to prevent them from being that effective.

great deal of attention? jeez, i remember mario getting quite a few double teams...

i think you're drastically overrating weaver. i know i'm biased about him but he isn't that good.

[painekiller]

i think you're drastically overrating weaver. i know i'm biased about him but he isn't that good.

Weaver is not a pass rusher #1, the plan is for him to off the field on passing downs #2, and lastly at 29 you expect a new career high in sacks. Edo, I hope your team figure is correct but as for Weaver, i don't think you are very close.

[papabear]

Concerning Amobi, Kubiak says he is improved, but what troubles me is that last year his production went way down during the last half of the season. People say "he hit the wall", but frankly, I'm at a loss for what caused it. The thing that bothers me is how do we know he isn't going to hit that same wall all season this year? Very puzzling to me.

Most rookies hit it in one way or the other. I think it was more pronounced because he started off so well that it made it seem that much worse later.

The kid was 19-20 years old and had probably never played more than 10-12 games a year. Then he has to go through 20 games+ training camp+OTA's playing just about every down in the majority of the games at one of the most physically brutal positions. The normal DT takes a couple year to grow into the position. If he didn't hit the wall last year I would have been surprised.

His body will adjust, and he'll be better mentally prepared. Like I said most Rookies hit a wall.

[KJ3]

i think amobi was there mentally and gone physically the farther along the season got. no way was he ready for it but he gutted it out anyway on a team that wasn't going to the playoffs. that's heart right there... and next to mario we've ourselves got a tandem of stud d'lineman.

here is an easy way for everybody to judge the defense on the same scale:

OVER/UNDERS
mario 13.5 sacks (over)
amobi 7.5 sacks (over)
defense 40 sacks (under)
demeco 324 solo tackles (way over)
fred bennett 7.5 int's (over)
any other DB 2.5 int's (under)
defense 20 int's (under)
dunta's return to the field 6th week (over)
number of weeks before molden replaces reeves 4 weeks (under)
number of safeties that start for us this year 3.5 (over)
total yards given up average 344.2 ypg (under)

if anybody else can think of some good over/unders then post 'em!!

[Joshua]

i think amobi was there mentally and gone physically the farther along the season got.

I agree with this but would only add that the two probably go hand-in-hand. As a rook, you're overwelmed by the playbook, the intricate technique you're supposed to be mastering, by the speed of the game, etc. Thus, you spend a lot of time thinking rather than playing (and, for things like technique, thinking while you're playing). I suspect that a fair amount of physical exhaustion partly stems from always wondering and worrying that you're in the right place, running the right play, applying the proper technique, etc. Once this becomes second nature, I suspect the physical requirements of it will diminish as well.

[KJ3]

i don't know because it's not like his play totally went to crap. he just wasn't able to do things he was doing earlier in the season. i'm not saying he was perfect technically but he went from eye popping good to average in about a week. not like it matters though...

[Mike]

I am not a fan of individual stats if INT's, sacks etc.

What will make this defense good is what they do on third down. Over the years we have had way too many instances of getting an offense in a hole, and allowing them to convert on third down.

Some of that has been lack of pressure up front allowing QB's time to pick on a weak secondary and lack of team speed.

I think if we can get off the field on third down, and not allow the opposition to drive and flip field position then we will be fine. The team has more speed and its best roster yet. I am hopeful this combination allows us to win on third downs, because our offense should be potent and able to score, especially with a short field.

raise your hand if you know what team was #2 in the NFL last year in explosive plays (plays over 25 yards? The Texans... Without a running game and without AJ was #2 behind the Patriots.

[edo783]

i think you're drastically overrating weaver. .

Without Mario on the other side you are absolutely correct. I see him getting most/all of his production from the other team making the QB move away from Mario and at times the QB just running for his life from him. A bit like flushing deer where the ones that do the driving don't get many shots, but the ones that get them driven to them get some easy pickings. Basically Weaver gets what falls off of Mario's plate.

[KJ3]

weaver hasn't had more than 1 sack in several years, two of which included mario on the other side. so maybe mario is getting what falls off of weaver's plate? because weaver sure has fallen off....

[edo783]

weaver hasn't had more than 1 sack in several years, two of which included mario on the other side. so maybe mario is getting what falls off of weaver's plate? because weaver sure has fallen off....

All of that is true. However, he has been injured for some time and if IIRC, before injury he picked up a few sacks. Now, having said that, there is no way he is a sack machine. It's more of a fall into slop and come up smelling good type of thing. Pure and simple, he is a 3-4 DE and we switched to the 4-3 right after picking him up. He has not been the same player he is/was in a 3-4. To slow to be a good 4-3 DE and too light/strong to be a good 4-3 DT. If we had stayed with the 3-4 I suspect he would be thought a lot better of. Not a bad player, just the wrong system for him. It was our fault, not his for taking him and switching systems.

[Nconroe]

well, I'm hoping Weaver has him a bounce back year , over injuries, more mature players around him, maybe a better system. And is LDE mostly assigned to run stop, consume blockers, rather than sack anyways? I do hope overall the DL and LBs can come up with more sacks and more pressure quicker than previous years.

I'm wondering how many DB's we'll keep and what mix of current CB and Safety that will be? Will we start bumping the WRs on the line or keep playing way back? Which cover scheme they will end up going with?

[papabear]

well, I'm hoping Weaver has him a bounce back year , over injuries, more mature players around him, maybe a better system. And is LDE mostly assigned to run stop, consume blockers, rather than sack anyways? I do hope overall the DL and LBs can come up with more sacks and more pressure quicker than previous years.

I'm wondering how many DB's we'll keep and what mix of current CB and Safety that will be? Will we start bumping the WRs on the line or keep playing way back? Which cover scheme they will end up going with?

Weaver does play more of the run stopping end position. On passing downs it's no big deal because he will either move inside or go to the bench and Colvin/Thompson will be in there.

I think the safeties will be interesting. The pub last year was that Earl was poised for a big year. the Brandon's are going to be fighting for spots...throw the rook in and it should be a pretty fierce competiton.

[KJ3]

It was our fault, not his for taking him and switching systems.
okay, but if he's that much better in the 3/4 we should trade him and get something for him because, all the reasons you gave aside, he doesn't play very well for us. totally replaceable in fact.

well, I'm hoping Weaver has him a bounce back year , over injuries, more mature players around him, maybe a better system. And is LDE mostly assigned to run stop, consume blockers, rather than sack anyways? I do hope overall the DL and LBs can come up with more sacks and more pressure quicker than previous years.
i always thought that weaver (lining up across from the opposing LT) was in the spot generally counted on for sacks. reason being that LT are generally better pass blockers than run blockers. mario usually being against the RT i always just figured that was a good spot for him because he is a good run defender on top of his pass rushing. i could be totally wrong though.

of course i would love to see more sacks but more pressure and getting the qb rattled would be great.


I think the safeties will be interesting. The pub last year was that Earl was poised for a big year. the Brandon's are going to be fighting for spots...throw the rook in and it should be a pretty fierce competiton.

i've never had a grasp on earl. he never really stuck out to me pre-injury and it's not like i can just go ask him how good he is so...i don't know what to expect. i do think c.c. brown is about to be moved down the charts a spot or two though. i wonder how long of a leash will demps gets? his play seemed pretty inspired last year so we'll see if he's really that good/intense on the field or if it was a fluke.

[Nconroe]

it is what I saw a lot last year as well with Mario at LDE, but this year sounds like our LT Duane Browne is going against Mario which would make Mario RDE and Weaver the LDE on run plays , that is a change seems like from last year. there will likely be exceptions no matter who lines up where.

I too think the two Brandons will make it interesting for Safety and DB positions, atleast I hope so as they have good size (speed?) for DB's. Seems Earl is always projected as starting safety but gets nicked up a lot, if he stays healthy might be good, don't know for sure.

Seems coaches want to be faster and healthier on defense, good, but what does that mean for some of the older and previously injured guys? some of their leadership of older guys likely needed as we have many young guys still.

[papabear]

i always thought that weaver (lining up across from the opposing LT) was in the spot generally counted on for sacks. reason being that LT are generally better pass blockers than run blockers. mario usually being against the RT i always just figured that was a good spot for him because he is a good run defender on top of his pass rushing. i could be totally wrong though.




Weaver has always been a LDE for us lining up across from the RT. Mario would occasionally slide over to that spot on pass rushing downs, but their base formation was Mario at RDE and Weaver at LDE. Weaver played DT on passing downs, but if he ever lined up at RDE against a LT it was rare.

Typically teams put their best pass (speed-think Freeney) rusher at RDE (QB's blindside for right handers). That's why LT's are so important....they have to be able to keep up with the speed rushers to protect the QB's blind side. Mario is good against the run and a lot of people feel that we would be better off having a speed type rusher (Colvin on passing downs) to play the right side of the D-Line and let Mario work from the right.

[kravix]

i've never had a grasp on earl. he never really stuck out to me pre-injury and it's not like i can just go ask him how good he is so...i don't know what to expect. i do think c.c. brown is about to be moved down the charts a spot or two though. i wonder how long of a leash will demps gets? his play seemed pretty inspired last year so we'll see if he's really that good/intense on the field or if it was a fluke.

Earl was being graded out as a first rounder, but had a knee injury and concerns about his health killed his grade. Thats how we got him so late in the draft, and it seems the injury concerns arent totaly unfounded.

[infantrycak]

Earl was being graded out as a first rounder, but had a knee injury and concerns about his health killed his grade. Thats how we got him so late in the draft, and it seems the injury concerns arent totaly unfounded.

The college injury was to his knee. His injury with the Texans was a lis franc foot injury. Not seeing how the two are connected.

[KJ3]

Weaver has always been a LDE for us lining up across from the RT. Mario would occasionally slide over to that spot on pass rushing downs, but their base formation was Mario at RDE and Weaver at LDE. Weaver played DT on passing downs, but if he ever lined up at RDE against a LT it was rare.

Typically teams put their best pass (speed-think Freeney) rusher at RDE (QB's blindside for right handers). That's why LT's are so important....they have to be able to keep up with the speed rushers to protect the QB's blind side. Mario is good against the run and a lot of people feel that we would be better off having a speed type rusher (Colvin on passing downs) to play the right side of the D-Line and let Mario work from the right.

that's the logic i'm basing my thoughts off of, i just can't get my lefts and rights figured out :D. for some reason i remember weaver taking a bunch of snaps from RDE or possibly it was somebody else and i'm just kind of far away sitting in the upper level....anyway.....i think mario from LDE + a speed rusher would be great and it suits mario's strengths well. or just get a clone of mario....say isn't julius peppers about to be a free agent?

[papabear]

that's the logic i'm basing my thoughts off of, i just can't get my lefts and rights figured out :D. for some reason i remember weaver taking a bunch of snaps from RDE or possibly it was somebody else and i'm just kind of far away sitting in the upper level....anyway.....i think mario from LDE + a speed rusher would be great and it suits mario's strengths well. or just get a clone of mario....say isn't julius peppers about to be a free agent?

It's possible Weaver did, but I don't think it was very many. Kalu played all over the line and he lined up there sometimes. I seem to remember Cochran maybe taking a few snaps at RDE. This was usually on passing downs.